M.S. Harkness is a graduate of the Minneapolis College of Art and Design and a relative newcomer to Columbus, moving here in 2020. She is best known for her black and white autobiographical comics, such as self-published Dope Dealer and Rotten, as well as her first graphic novel Tinderella, originally published by Kilgore Books in 2018 and recently reissued by Uncivilized Books. Sometimes humorous, sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes heart-wrenching, Harkness’s comics offer a fearless look into the world of online dating, sex work, selling drugs, and physical fitness. Her second memoir, Desperate Pleasures, (also published by Uncivilized Books), depicts her search for fulfillment and forces her to deal with her own past trauma. Her forthcoming book, Time Under Tension, is due out from Fantagraphic Books in 2023. Besides her comic work, Harkness also works as a personal trainer. Columbus welcomes this fresh voice in the cartooning world.
1. In reading through past interviews, it sounds like you’ve been making comics in one form or another as far back as childhood. Can you tell us who inspired you and what kind of comics you read growing up?
A pretty typical hash of global comics. When I was really little it was strips and such, but I read superhero and manga stuff when I was a teenager. I don’t think I was really aware of autobiographical comics until I read Blankets in high school. Me and my friends would buy different comics and trade them to read amongst each other, or do the thing where you go to half price books and pick up a big bag of stuff.
2. You moved here from Minneapolis fairly recently. What was that experience like and were there any particular reasons you chose to relocate to Columbus? What about Columbus’ comic community do you find exciting?
Moving sucked, but it was made easier by the pandemic because I had the money to do it. I got all that stimulus, so I was able to invest in a lot of things I couldn’t really afford previously, so all of a sudden I had all these belongings to shuttle across the country.
Columbus has always been an amazing place to visit and it’s the state where I did my first comic show. Everything is cheaper here, and it’s closer to a lot more spots on the east coast that do comic shows, so there are more opportunities. It’s more traditional and less progressive than Minneapolis, but if you’re poor, it’s an easier place to live. Because there aren’t a lot of state grants and government help with things, people are a lot more inclined to actually give others a hand.
I like to visit bigger cities, but I like to live where it’s cheap and simple. OSU football is fun to watch. What more could I want?
3. In your autobiographical comics, you pen tales based on actual experiences from your life. As time goes on, do you ever reflect on your past work at all and does it ever conflict with your memory of events? Is there a difference between the “real” you and the comic depiction you present to readers, or do you feel they’re one in the same?
They’re the same and they’re not the same. Everything is subjective and personal, and I’m the only authority over myself. Does it matter anymore? Nobody ever has anything to say after I answer this question because my work is so uncomfortable most of the time, people just nod and we move along, almost sorry that they asked. I always wonder if it really makes it better for people to know or not. A long time ago in some TCJ (The Comics Journal) article, Phoebe Gleockner chewed out Gary Groth for asking her this same question and I’m starting to kinda agree with her to a point. I tabled in Philly a little while ago and some guy opened one of my comics, specifically to an explicit panel, and just asked me “Uh, is this you?” sort of laughing.
I think what people are asking me when they ask me this question most of the time is “WHY are you making autobio comics.” Because that’s the real meat of it right? Which one is it? Are you the egomaniacal person that wants to be some kind of celebrity and really you’re just insecure and annoying? Or are you really awkward and weird and looking for community, but really you’re just insecure and annoying? I think I’m mostly the first one, but also I never want to waste the time of anyone who’s trying to read my work. If I have your attention, you won’t be mad I’ve held it.
4. Your work can jet back and forth between being darkly humorous and self-deprecating, to sordidly depressing, to inspiring. How do you balance the tone of your work? Is it even a consideration in telling an honest tale?
Absolutely it’s a consideration. It’s all about knowing all the modes of communication you’re putting forward in a comic. You have everything at your disposal, assuming you can draw, so you just have to learn what’s acceptable and what will actually hit. I think with my last books it was about trying to edit down and be more reserved, considering I was talking about a lot of depressing stuff. With this next book I’m trying to stretch more and show a bigger world within the comic, with a lot more breathing room that actually has a lot of energy showing more ordinary moments. Small things that you forget about if your power of observation isn’t there.
5. Many of us would consider the stories you share to be deeply personal and perhaps reluctant to share them with a wide audience. Does being open about yourself come naturally? Have you ever caught any flack from friends and other figures you insert in your comics?
Being open is weird and really I’m just bad with secrets. Seriously, just don’t tell me stuff if you don’t want me to say it out loud.
My whole childhood I had to hide the fact my dad was molesting me and so I had this alternate reality where I was sort of saving my family from poverty by holding this secret. It ended up coming out eventually, but not because I said anything. I think the fact that I held it in as long as I did and ultimately had no control over the rest of my family finding out really messed me up. My mom ended up making a blog online where she basically thoroughly explained our intimate family secrets and the subsequent court proceedings when I was like 16, and then you throw on whatever growing up online does to you… Yeah. I don’t know.
Literally, the only power I had over that situation was my ability to tell/not tell and that completely got away from me and sort of shattered any notions I could hold for being able to keep the family together by just bearing this abuse. If you don’t have control over your own narrative, you don’t have any sort of self-esteem or idea about who you are. So I guess I’ve sort of over-corrected where I’m just putting everything on blast in my work. There’s a lot of ways this can all go wrong and I’m sure I’ll make a horrible mistake at some point.
I’ve definitely changed things to be more respectful/cover people’s butts where I can. Comics aren’t worth ruining relationships.
6. Can you tell us about your process? Do you spend hours fine-tuning a script before moving on to the other steps like thumbnailing panels? How do you decide which snippet of life would make a great comic?
A good story is a good story. I’m the ‘main character’ and I’m very attached to people and the material world and although I have these life experiences that are beyond the pale of normal life at times, I’m pretty grounded in that I’m telling stories about wanting love and intimacy and finding failure and doubt inside myself. I make messy thumbnails with a loose script about the general idea for the book I’m going to make. As I work through pencils, I’m making sure that the dialogue and framing follows the logic of the scene. There’s always a couple of things going on (on the page) and I try to format it in such a way that everything is so well balanced it feels like this steady line.
People don’t all look for the same things in autobio comics, but I’m trying to format the story in such a way that even if it isn’t your cup of tea, you understand it and feel like you were considered as a reader.
7. At times, you incorporate both minimalistic and more detailed styles to your work, such as in your recent book Desperate Pleasures. Can you explain the reasoning behind switching styles?
I think it just cues your thinking to shift in such a way that as a reader you know you have to pivot. Whatever internal logic or structure you’ve grown accustomed to has to shift and some assumptions may need to change. Generally, it’s like a construction sign on a highway where your attention span is a little boosted. With the graphite bit in Desperate Pleasures where I’m showing a story about my mom, it’s sort of like saying “Hey, this is something else, there isn’t any dialogue here, etc.”
You can also make some connection, I guess, where there’s a lot more shades of grey too, right? I’m not doing my black & white comic thing where it’s about me, this is someone else’s experience and it’s not perfect or easily defined. Also, with each book I want to challenge myself and try something new. I don’t want people to think that it’s easy to just call me some autobio artist and call it a day, I’m really good at drawing and I have different modes I can work in.
8. During Labor Day of this past year, you organized a “cartoonist retreat” and pop-up comic venue in downtown Columbus at Blockfort, bringing together creators from Pennsylvania, Illinois, Minnesota, and other nearby states. Are there similar events brewing? Do you think there should be a more cohesive “Midwest Comic Scene?”
More cohesive certainly. There’s totally other events in Chicago and the like, but Columbus needs to stop resting on the prestige of the Billy (Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum) and actually go out and take part. I want to do more, and at least right now it’s looking like it’ll become more possible with the state of the world. I don’t know. I made a retreat and a pop-up event because I missed my friends, so I just invited the people I thought were cool and would mesh well. My people are great and it was great. I don’t know how it would have run if I just tried to net a bunch of non-vetted or entitled artists that thought they deserved to table just because they hadn’t in 2 years.
Every cartoonist I’ve met is astonished by how great Columbus is, but we don’t have enough Ohio folks getting off their ass and spreading the gospel to the other territories. If you’re some college kid who makes comics and you’re reading this, go to Chicago, Detroit, Ann Arbor, or Pittsburgh and go to the indie shops there and drop off your minis. If you only table at SPACE and CXC, you’re only going to sell stuff to your friends. Go to weird shows 4 hours away and meet people. Sleep in your car. It’s the best.
9. You mentioned in a sit down with columbusalive.com that you might be making a change away from autobio work, perhaps to try your hand at fiction. What excites you the most about changing things up? Does it intimidate you at all? Any initial ideas you can share with us?
I still have a lot of autobio in me. The stories I’m telling right now are all building towards something that will take a few years. It’s just fun to think about what I’ll do after that. Really, I’ll probably make a family or something while it’s possible. It’s hard to say. The things I care about now may not interest me once I get to actually sitting down to planning a book. Me and my friends are always talking about what constitutes some good nonfiction comics and what stories would be amazing to read in the format. I’m not really intimidated by it. People can say whatever they want, but I’ll be more interested to see what remains “me” even when I’m not drawing myself all the time.
10. It’s no secret you have a passion for weightlifting, something you showcase prominently in Tinderella and your other work. Are there any of your cartoonist peers you feel could keep up with you in the gym?
Probably. I lost like 5+ pounds of muscle during the pandemic when I lost gym access, so I’m the skinniest I’ve ever been, but people still come up to me when I table and gush that I could out deadlift them or whatever. There’s plenty of cartoonists that could run for longer than me. Really at this point I’m just spending a lot of time in the gym, so I don’t destroy my back drawing. Everything is just in service to that.